Steadfast Care Planning

Tech to Help People Age Successfully with Larry Nisenson

• Kelly Augspurger • Season 1 • Episode 32

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What does it mean to age successfully and what tools exist to help us successfully age?

Kelly Augspurger spoke to Larry Nisenson, Chief Growth Officer of Assured Allies, and they explored the innovative technology and programs designed to help people age successfully in place.

In this episode they covered:

🔹 How Assured Allies got its start in the long-term care field.

🔹 The Never Stop Wellness Program that offers personalized coaching to policyholders.

🔹 The role of technology in the Never Stop Wellness Rewards Program.

🔹 The role of the family of policyholders in the Never Stop Wellness Rewards Program.

🔹 The potential for earning extra benefits through the program.

🔹 Future plans for Assured Allies in terms of making their wellness programs available to consumers who do not have LTC policies with embedded programs.

🔹 Key factors and considerations for individuals when planning for extended care.

🔹 Innovative features distinguish the Never Stop program from LTC policies that don't have the Never Stop program embedded in them.

Connect with Larry Nisenson for more information on the Never Stop Wellness Rewards Program through LinkedIn or visit: www.NeverStop.com or www.AssuredAllies.com
______________________________________________________________________________

➡️ Watch this podcast:  https://youtu.be/39Q9baRiMvI

#LongTermCare #FinancialPlanning #SteadfastCarePlanning #NeverStop #AssuredAllies

For additional information about Kelly, check her out on Linkedin or www.SteadfastAgents.com.

Steadfast Care Planning podcast is made possible by Steadfast Insurance LLC, Certification in Long Term Care, and AMADA Senior Care.

Come back next time for more helpful guidance!

For additional information about Kelly, check her out on Linkedin or www.SteadfastAgents.com.

To explore your options for long-term care insurance, click here.

Steadfast Care Planning podcast is made possible by Steadfast Insurance LLC,
Certification in Long Term Care, and AMADA Senior Care Columbus.

Come back next time for more helpful guidance!

Kelly Augspurger [00:00:02]:

Hey everyone, welcome to Steadfast Care Planning where we plan for care to live well. I'm your guide, Kelly Augspurger. With me today is Larry Nisenson, who is the chief growth officer with Assured Allies, a company that helps make successful aging accessible. Larry, thanks so much for being here.

Larry Nisenson [00:00:20]:

Thanks for having me, Kelly. Always a pleasure.

Kelly Augspurger [00:00:22]:

Today we are going to be talking about technology and programs that can help people successfully age in place. So, Larry, can we jump right in?

Larry Nisenson [00:00:31]:

Let's do it.

Kelly Augspurger [00:00:32]:

All right. Well, first, let's set the stage. Larry, how did your company assured allies get its start in the long term care extended care field?

Larry Nisenson [00:00:41]:

It's actually a fascinating story, and I'll give us the Reader's Digest version of it.

Kelly Augspurger [00:00:45]:

Perfect.

Larry Nisenson [00:00:45]:

So our two co founders. One is a technologist born in Tel Aviv. He came out of the Israeli army, ultimately started a tech company back in the day doing personalized ads for mobile phones. So think about the early 90s. This was sort of really at the cutting edge of technology. And this is what he did. He sold his company and then said, "All right, what do I want to do now?" He got partnered up with another gentleman who's here in the States, who's a doctor, he's an MD, was working for PwC, managing their healthcare business, and was really looking for something to get back on his own. And these two were introduced and they said, "What is it that we think we can do?" Roee, who's the gentleman in Tel Aviv, wanted to be really proud of what it was that his business was doing.

Larry Nisenson [00:01:29]:

When he talked to his grandparents, there wasn't a lot of pride in saying, "I create mobile ads." He wanted to do something that would give back. And Afik, who is our co founder who lives here in Boston, was also looking to make a measurable difference. He was working for, as I said, he was a doctor. He was working in healthcare. He thought it was disjointed, it was fractured. It needed to be worked on, and they settled in. Having spoken to parents, it's interesting, their parents and grandparents, on what they could do is they could really help sort of this aging curve, right? They decided that they were going to form a company that was going to better understand what the aging trajectory looked like for most Americans.

Larry Nisenson [00:02:07]:

And as they started to dive into it, they built a clinical research data science capability over a two year period. They didn't talk to a carrier. They didn't dive into new products. We didn't do any of that. All they did was spend two years trying to understand what aging meant and what were the things they could do to positively bend the curve around aging, right? As an example, they saw and built out the correlation between hearing loss and the beginning of dementia and then full decline. They watched that aging trajectory.

Larry Nisenson [00:02:41]:

It's really incredible. And we could talk for hours about the science behind it. But once they had developed this technique, this understanding of the implications, they said, "All right, so now what do we do with it?" And they started to approach in-force long-term care carriers. And they said, "Let's run some pilots. Let us work with your pre claimants to see if we could put some of these wellness techniques in place." Really simple things, Kelly, I'm talking about giving somebody a bath transfer seat, right. The impact of giving somebody a bath transfer seat to keep them off of claim, living at home. Our whole goal of the company, you mentioned it earlier, is to age successfully.

Larry Nisenson [00:03:17]:

And to us, aging successfully means how do we help people stay at home for as long as possible? And through their early work and some of the work we did piloting with in-force carriers, which is now developed into a full business for us under our Age Assured brand, we're now working with five of the ten largest long-term care companies doing in-force wellness programs, all aimed at sort of the cohort of policyholders who are preclaimants, who we think with these small interventions, we can help them stay at home. And the benefit to the insurance companies that we've shown is an 18% reduction of claim cost. Now, sure, from the insurance company, they care about that, but what we care about is that we're helping people stay at home for as long as possible. And that formed the foundation of the Never Stop business, which is the business that I run for them, which is where we said, "Look, if we're doing this for the oldest clients, imagine if we got to people younger and we could help them live more successfully, how could we really bend that aging curve for them?" Wow.

Kelly Augspurger [00:04:19]:

So this is a win win, Larry, for everybody involved, this is a win for the policyholder, the client, the person that's aging. If this means that they get to stay in their home longer and safely, successfully, and this is a win for insurance companies, because if they have policyholders and they're not going on claim as early as soon, that means they're paying less in claims.

Larry Nisenson [00:04:41]:

Yes. And there's one more constituent, by the way, who's super important to all of this.

Kelly Augspurger [00:04:47]:

The family.

Larry Nisenson [00:04:47]:

And that's the regulator. No, the family for sure, too. Yes, but also the regulators, right? The state regulators know ultimately, if the insurance company...think about the insurance company for in-force, they really only have a few levers to move in order to match their expected claim cost and their actual reserve dollars, right? So they take rate when they can. They go to the state and say, "We need to take some more rate."

Larry Nisenson [00:05:13]:

Some of the carriers are also saying to people, "Maybe you've got too much long term care, right? Can we reduce your benefit?" And that's getting this gap narrowed. But from a regulator standpoint, and we meet with all of the regulators, all 51 of them, what we tell them is what we're also doing is helping to create a need for less rate because we're helping people stay off claim, live at home, where it's more economical, where most people want to live. And so the regulators are also super happy with what we're doing.

Kelly Augspurger [00:05:41]:

Oh, this is so exciting, Larry. This is so innovative, what you guys are doing. At Assured Allies, we know that as people age, we want dignity. We want independence, safety, financial stability, high quality of life, right? All of these things are important to us as people. These are our goals. But we know there's often health, mobility, and safety issues that can arise that can derail those goals, right? So let's talk about how we can prevent what we can and prepare for what we can't.

Kelly Augspurger [00:06:11]:

And I know you guys, that's your term, right? I'm using your term.

Larry Nisenson [00:06:15]:

It is. And you used it perfectly, by the way.

Kelly Augspurger [00:06:17]:

Prepare for what we can't. So, Larry, tell us, what tools, techniques, or programs does your team at Assured Allies have to help people age successfully and prevent what we used to think of as inevitable?

Larry Nisenson [00:06:32]:

Yeah, it's really, first of all, I want to commend you on using the right words, not our words, but the idea of aging with dignity. Everybody's aging curve is going to be different. Everybody's going to have a different view of what aging means, right? I used to say that nobody wakes up in the morning and wants to move into a nursing home. And I have done over my career, I don't know, hundreds of seminars around aging properly. And what can we do to prepare for aging? And I always ask this question as a provocative starter of consumers. "Raise your hand if you're looking forward to moving into a nursing home."

Larry Nisenson [00:07:06]:

And the answer is, nobody's looking forward to that. But I don't say that quite the same anymore because I did one about a month ago and somebody actually said, "I am looking forward to it." And I was fascinated. I'm like, well, why? It's crazy, right? But they weren't really talking about the nursing home, what they were talking about, which gets exactly to your point about this idea of dignity and the view of what it looks like. Everybody's view, perspective is different. This person was eager. They had become isolated.

Larry Nisenson [00:07:35]:

Isolation is one of the key drivers of early onset dementia, which almost always spirals out into severe cognitive impairment. This person was isolated and was looking forward to moving into a facility where their friends had gone. They wanted that social connection. So, anyway, I don't say nobody wants to move into a nursing home anymore, because I met one person who actually was.

Kelly Augspurger [00:07:57]:

That's wild. But I think we could even say that. I think we could broaden that, Larry, and say even assisted living, right? Like, I don't know if we necessarily need to say nursing home, because really, that's the last place most people want to be. But for sure, there are people that say, "Hey, an assisted living community." And there are really some nice, swanky, really top notch. There are assisted living communities now. I visited them. I've seen know they're out there.

Kelly Augspurger [00:08:21]:

And so it's kind of like. And it's funny, I had Tom Hegna on my show, and he was like, it's kind of like going back to college, Kelly. You got your buddies down the hallway. You got meals, you got activities. If you are isolated, if you're living alone, maybe you're single, widowed, whatever the case may be, having that socialization is important. So I'm glad that you brought that up. But, yeah, aging with dignity, that's important. And now for a brief message from our show's sponsor.

Kelly Augspurger [00:08:48]:

The Steadfast Care Planning podcast is sponsored by the CLTC certified in Long Term Care Training Program, which gives financial advisors tools to discuss extended care planning with their clients. Look for the CLTC designation when choosing an advisor. So what do you guys have? What are your programs?

Larry Nisenson [00:09:05]:

Let's talk about what we do in the Never Stop Wellness Program, right? So the Never Stop Wellness Program is embedded into the products that we launch. As you know, we have built with Equitrust, the bridge annuity product. We're in market in 44 states right now. We've got two more we're waiting for with fingers crossed. And inside of this wellness rewards program, every policyholder, it's included in all of the bridge annuities. Every policyholder gets a personal wellness coach. And that personal wellness coach literally takes them through sort of a guided tour of the roughly 25 areas of wellness that have an impact on how people's quality of life, what we refer to as the disability free life expectancy.

Larry Nisenson [00:09:54]:

I'm not going to take somebody and make them live longer. We want that, but more importantly, we want to show them how with some of these ideas, and we'll go through a few of them in a minute, we can help the quality of life. How long can they live disability free and how do we help them? And so we have these roughly 25 areas. Things like I mentioned, hearing is a good example. How about sleeping better? How can we help people sleep better? We work with them on sometimes it's a sleep apnea issue, and when it's that, we arrange with their insurance company to get them a sleeping test. If there's a CPAP or a BIPAP machine that's needed, we work with the insurance carrier to get that delivered. But more importantly, we work with the policyholder to make sure that they're using it the right way. It's one thing to have at hearing aids is the best example of this.

Larry Nisenson [00:10:40]:

I have an uncle with hearing aids who he thinks just buying the hearing aids was all it took. He didn't realize they had a go in his ear. So every time I see him, I'm like, "Why aren't they with you?" "Ah, they're on the bureau there. I didn't put them in. I didn't charge them." What we do is when we're working with a policyholder on one of these interventions, our follow up is to make sure they're using them, to make sure they're working well, to make sure they don't have any questions and that they're forming the habit. So it could be something as simple as exercise or their preventative medical care.

Larry Nisenson [00:11:11]:

Our allies, which are trained health coaches and wellness coaches and OT and PT, it's literally a team of experts who meet to discuss each member's issues and what we can do to help them live the best version of their life. And through this personalized wellness program and customized ally support, we are really sitting next to each member, Kelly, on the journey of aging. How are they? Let's say it's something as simple as exercise. What does that even mean, exercise? Is it walking? Is it running? Is it biking? Maybe. But maybe it's something even less than that. Maybe it's just taking somebody who sits in a chair all day and watches TV because maybe they've got a bad hip, they have a bad knee. And our OT and PT team is designing some in house exercise programs from them. And they do all of this from the comfort of their home in a session just like this.

Larry Nisenson [00:12:03]:

Everything we do, whether it's the underwriting in the beginning stage of the purchase of the annuity, all the way through the wellness. All of it is done using technology through Zoom, interactive Zoom calls, just like this.

Kelly Augspurger [00:12:15]:

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So very tech forward. You guys are using technology at its finest, right? And I'm assuming that this is going to continue to evolve. I would imagine five years from now it's going to be even more sophisticated than it is today. But you've got these personalized health coaches. You call them your allies. Yeah. That's cute.

Kelly Augspurger [00:12:35]:

The allies that are coming alongside the policyholder. And then what about even the family? Like, is the family involved at all, Larry, in that process?

Larry Nisenson [00:12:44]:

They're definitely involved.

Kelly Augspurger [00:12:46]:

Okay.

Larry Nisenson [00:12:46]:

And they're involved for every reason you would imagine. Let's first start with the fact that they're almost always in the support network, and we happen to know that taking care of a policyholder is great. Taking care of their loved ones is just as great. So part of the areas that we concentrated on is stress reduction and of course, caregiving. Family caregiving, for sure, is one of the great stressors for people. Our range of policyholders in the Never Stop program is 55 to 75. And so some of those younger cohorts, they may be policyholders, but they're also providing care for their loved ones. And we want to make sure we're providing the interventions of stress reduction.

Larry Nisenson [00:13:27]:

We work with the Fitbit and the Calm app. Every person who joins the Never Stop program gets a Fitbit Charge 5, which is one of their devices. Embedded in that is the Calm app. So we're working with the policyholder when it's them as the caregiver. And for our older policyholders who have caregivers or who have family members who are interested, we invite them into the network around how we're doing the wellness program so that they can be the right support mechanism, right? Maybe they're actually living on property. Maybe they're visiting with their policyholder, the older policyholder who could be disabled.

Larry Nisenson [00:14:01]:

It's one of sort of the features of our product. Not to dive into the product piece, but it's 100% medically guaranteed. So we have policyholders who bought a policy who are fully disabled and who are in care right now. And for sure, those policyholders have family caregivers, and we're always working with them to make sure we're supporting both them and the member to give them their best version of how to live their best life, if you will.

Kelly Augspurger [00:14:27]:

That's wonderful. So you're supporting the policyholder, supporting the family so that they can age successfully with dignity. I know this is very scientific, right? There's a lot of data that's involved with this. Can you kind of take us through the stages so you've got someone that has the Never Stop Program? They're a policyholder. How do you engage with them? Is it once a year? Is it just as needed? What does that look like and what kind of questions you ask them or the categories to be able to identify what their needs are?

Larry Nisenson [00:14:59]:

I love the question. It's one thing to have this aspirational thing, "Hey, this is what we're going to do." But it's another to say, "Well, what do you actually do?" We are a fully digital shop. We have no paper anywhere. Everything is done digitally. But what's interesting is we perform the wellness program even through analog, right? So we have members who prefer to do a phone call and not to do a Zoom session like this. And for those, what I'm going to describe occurs over a telephone. Old school.

Larry Nisenson [00:15:29]:

For those that want to do it digitally, we do sessions like this and the process is super simple. We welcome them into the program, right? So we send out a note that says, congratulations, you're now a "Never Stopper". That's what we call our members. Never Stoppers look forward to a call and we're going to schedule some time. We have about a 70%, by the way, onboarding experience. So about seven out of every ten people who purchase the bridge annuity right now are being welcomed in and actively engaged inside of the Never Stop Wellness Program, which for those that know the acquisition side of the business, 70% engagement is an amazing number.

Larry Nisenson [00:16:06]:

When we built this, we were hoping for like a 35-40% that we were going to have to really double down our efforts. But we have about a 70% active participation and it's super simple, it's customized. It's really the important part to remember when we talk about it is that we meet the member first of all. We meet them, however, wherever and as often as they want to meet with us. That's first off. We have one Never Stopper who meets with us every month to sort of gauge their progress and to talk through what they're doing.

Kelly Augspurger [00:16:35]:

The Steadfast Care Planning podcast is sponsored by AMADA Senior Care. AMADA provides complimentary consultation with a senior care advisor to find the right care from in home caregiving to community care, as well as long-term care insurance, claim advocacy, and unique support partnerships for financial advisors to address family transitions and generational retention. To learn more, visit www.SteadfastWithAmada.com.

Larry Nisenson [00:17:06]:

But let me take you all the way back to the beginning of where we start. So we welcome them into the program. We schedule an onboarding call, which is simply us talking to the member about what matters to them, right? It's sort of like a guided tour of their own wellness aspirations. We ask them what's going on, what's of concern, what are the areas that you want to focus on? And we sort of take them through this guided journey where we're pointing out some of the areas that our science tells us people in their age group traditionally have either issues or places they want to see improvement. And what we're doing in this journey, this is where the science, it's sort of this blend of art and science, right? We're presenting people with what our clinical team, our research, our data science team has told us has the best impact, the best positive impact on somebody's aging.

Larry Nisenson [00:18:00]:

So I'll give you an example. Everybody knows that smoking is a bad thing. They know it, sure. But if you're still smoking, I'm not going to force you to stop smoking. You know already, and I'm not here to judge it one way or the other. Right. So we highlight that smoking leads to premature bad things happening. But we don't want to tell somebody, you have to do this.

Larry Nisenson [00:18:23]:

This is their program. So we talk to them about what matters to them the most. We present different opportunities, what we call successful aging opportunities. Do you want to work on your cognitive? Do you want to work on your physical? Are you going for your preventative medical? Are you seeing your doctor every year? Are you getting a physical? If not, why not? What can we do to help? Are there things that we can do in the home for you, or can we just simply help arrange to get you there? So we take them through this guided tour of what do they want to work on? Kelly, we know that if I force you into three healthy actions you're not going to do them. You know, you have to eat better. You know, you have to stop smoking. And if you're like me, you have to drink a little bit less. But I don't do that.

Larry Nisenson [00:19:10]:

Right?

Kelly Augspurger [00:19:10]:

I have to have the motivation and desire to do it. Yeah.

Larry Nisenson [00:19:13]:

Yes, of course. So we want this. This is the Never Stopper's program. So we help them identify the three things that they want to work on. Then we settle into how do you want to work on it, and what's the cadence that you want to meet with us? We don't enforce. We don't force. We don't drag people through this. This is their wellness program, and we want to be supportive of that.

Larry Nisenson [00:19:35]:

So once we settle into these ideas, let's say they decide they want to take an online class because they want to work on their cognitive skills, they want to do the New York Times crossword puzzle because they heard that doing that is really great for them, or they want to work with one of the apps inside the Fitbit. Doesn't matter to us. What we then do is we say, "Okay, what's the cadence for us to meet, and how do you want to meet?" And we schedule regular follow up calls, not to sort know point at them and say, "What are you doing?" but more to say, "Are you happy with what you're doing? Is this the right activity? Are you pleased with your progress? How can we help? Is there anything else going on that you want us to be aware of?" Maybe they thought they wanted to work on their physical, on exercise, and at the end of it they decided, that's really not what I want to do. We want to then present them with other choices, and we make ourselves as available as they would like. It's required in the program. I'll tell you why I use the word required. It's required that they meet with an ally once a year to do another assessment. And that's because, we haven't really touched on this,

Larry Nisenson [00:20:39]:

but the benefit that they get from being in the Never Stop Wellness Program, yes, they get better health. We bend the aging curve. We give them a chance to live at home with dignity as long as possible. Plus, by participating in the wellness program, they're earning actual money, real dollars that get put into a pool for their long-term care needs when they go on claim. So the requirement to get those extra dollars is that we meet annually so that we can assess how they're doing. This is really for their benefit. We want to make sure that when it comes time to lock in, which is every two years, we lock in the extra incentive. We want to make sure that when we lock that incentive in, that we've helped them maximize how much they earned in that period.

Larry Nisenson [00:21:26]:

So because of that, we want to have this annual one year. But they could meet with us, as I said, as often as they want and change the activities as often as they'd like.

Kelly Augspurger [00:21:34]:

Super customized. All goes back to what does the Never Stopper wants and needs. But definitely they're meeting at least once a year with their ally, with their health coach. To be able to do this, this is so unique, especially earning credits, earning extra dollars, extra benefits, right? This is not typical in a long-term care insurance policy to be able to earn extra benefits because they're doing this program, right? This is very innovative, very unique to the industry.

Larry Nisenson [00:22:03]:

It's super innovative. And I have to tell you that the reception that we get when we pitch carriers and we talk about this is, there's lots of doubt, right? Like, "Wait a second, who's paying for this? How are we doing this? What's the point?" This is where our Age Assured business, where we started, really comes into play. Because what we show carriers is that, first of all, it's a voluntary program. So if you don't want to participate, if you're a member who says, "I want to do it" and then they drop out, it's entirely up to them, Kelly. But for those that participate, we know we can point to, I'll take you all the way back to that 18% savings that we're showing carriers. This program is paid for, this extra money, this extra incentive is paid for by what we can prove is the bending of that claim curve for the carrier. I have to say, I didn't start the company.

Larry Nisenson [00:22:53]:

I'm here about two and a half years. So the work that was done in creating the research, the work that was done in really understanding the implications of these happened long before I got here. But that work was amazingly innovative and spot on in terms of research and data and clinical and tying it all together. And so we know that most people at retirement age don't have enough money to last through retirement. And we happen to know for sure, you know, in your practice that almost nobody is fully prepared for a long-term care event. And so what we wanted to do is provide the right amount of incentive for people to say, "Look, we're going to help you live healthier. We're going to help you bend that curve." And because we know you don't have enough money saved for long-term care events, we're going to reward this participation by giving you not a small amount, this is not an insignificant amount in the equitrust product.

Larry Nisenson [00:23:48]:

Somebody who participates in the program throughout their journey can earn up to an additional 15% of their account value. So it's not an insignificant amount of money. It's real. We're not looking to turn people into marathon runners, right? We're just looking to get people to participate. That's all it is.

Kelly Augspurger [00:24:05]:

So the cost, you talked about the cost there saving insurance company is 18%. That's not a small number, but we're assuming then, so the insurance companies, they're paying the cost, right? The cost for your services, Larry, for people to access the Never Stop Program. It's the insurance company that's paying for it. The policyholder gets to receive these services and these benefits because the insurance company opted in to partner with your company to do this, right?

Larry Nisenson [00:24:32]:

That's exactly right.

Kelly Augspurger [00:24:33]:

So is there a way for people to access your services if they don't have a policy that has partnered with Assured Allies?

Larry Nisenson [00:24:42]:

Unfortunately, we don't have a standalone consumer version right now, but I will tell you, it is something we're working on. If people want to go to www.NeverStop.com, that's our forward facing website, they can certainly do that. There's information there. There's some techniques around successful aging for anybody in front of the firewall. There are blogs, there is information available for people. But more importantly, there's a contact me sheet if people are interested. They're not policyholders, but they're interested in, they can fill out some information. And as we make a consumer version available, we'd be happy to reach back out to them.

Larry Nisenson [00:25:19]:

But as it stands right now, you only get the Never Stop Wellness Rewards Program when it's embedded in a product and you happen to be a policyholder of that product or a family member who's working with us on behalf of the policyholder.

Kelly Augspurger [00:25:32]:

Okay, got it. So hopefully, coming sooner than later, there will be a version available to consumers if they don't actually already have an LTC policy that has these benefits just embedded in them. Okay, good to know. Well, Larry, any final advice on how people can plan for care to live well?

Larry Nisenson [00:25:48]:

My advice is pretty straightforward. It's pretty simple, but it's not followed nearly as much as you or I would like it to be. And that is, every person is going to age. God willing, every person is going to age. You can either be a proactive driver in that aging, or you can be reactive and allow it to wash over you. The best advice I give my aging parents, the best advice I give my friends who ask me about it is don't be caught by surprise. Work with a professional, understand what the options are. People think of long-term care insurance as expensive, as unaffordable, as problematic because they read some article or had somebody who had an experience with rate increases.

Larry Nisenson [00:26:30]:

But the reality of it is the products that are out in the market today are available at every price point in many, many versions and is affordable to anybody, especially when we think of the cost of not being prepared, right? So my advice is quite simply be a driver of what happens to you. Stay healthy, find a way to stay healthier, be more active, and work with a professional. That's the key.

Kelly Augspurger [00:26:58]:

Love it. Be proactive. That's something that I am consistently saying to my clients, to my advisors I work with, to everybody, anybody that'll listen, right. Be proactive in planning for the future and planning for extended care. You're just going to have a better outcome. You and your family will have a better outcome if we can think ahead, if we can prepare, if we can prevent. There's just going to be better results if we do that. So, Larry, thanks so much.

Kelly Augspurger [00:27:24]:

Where can people find more information about your services and how you help people?

Larry Nisenson [00:27:29]:

Absolutely. And thanks again, as always, Kelly, it's great to chat with you. You can go to www.NeverStop.com. One word, NeverStop.com. You can also go to AssuredAllies, one word, www.AssuredAllies.com, and find out more about everything we're doing around the research, around data science, and how we're bringing this modern, innovative world to the insurance business. And as always, thanks for having me.

Kelly Augspurger [00:27:54]:

Thanks, Larry. Really appreciate the time today. Everybody, have a wonderful day. Thanks, Larry. Bye.

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